Vincent Sargenti was a follower of Carlos Castaneda, but faced with inconsistencies that arose, he wanted to have a conversation with Cleargreen (the company Castaneda founded to market his teachings). Below is a translation of the conversation he had with one of the representatives of this organization, as remembered by Vincent.
--oOo--
(A telephone call placed by Cleargreen, Inc. to the home of Vincent Sargenti, Thursday afternoon, January 20, 2000)
Riiiiiinnnnggggggg!!!
Vincent: Hello?
Cleargreen: Hi, is this Vincent Sargenti?
Vincent: Yes, yes it is . . .
Cleargreen: Hi, Vincent. My name is Brian Boudwah and I am calling on behalf of Cleargreen, Inc. I understand you had some things you would like to talk with us about and I am calling to see if I might be of some assistance to you.
Vincent: Yes, indeed I do have several things I would like to discuss. Thank you for calling. Who am I speaking with?
Cleargreen: My name is Brian Boudwah.
Vincent: Hi Brian. Yeah, I do have some issues I would like to discuss with you. What did you say your name was? Brian . . .
Cleargreen: Boudwah.
Vincent: Boudwah? Very well then, Brian, I do have some issues I would like to discuss with you that have been left unacknowledged by your organization. I was hoping you might comment on issues that many longtime practitioners feel are very relevant.
Cleargreen: Well, before you go on let me just say something about this. There are a number of people who are spreading rumors on the internet, people whose sole motivation is to egomaniacally seek attention for themselves. These are people who were given the red-carpet treatment. They were brought into intimate association with the Nagual and his companions and offered a truly immense gift. But they were not of the right mindset to receive it in its entirety. And because they fell short, all that is left for them are these petty attempts to try to discredit the Nagual and the beautiful, indeed magical, gift he has left for us to advance upon.
These individuals who are spreading these rumors are disgruntled practitioners who were once given the keys to the Magic Kingdom, who, at one time, were given complete access to the Nagual, and were granted access to countless free classes. But for some reason, they are not interested in finding the gates of dreaming, or flying off into the sublime, finding power in the second attention. They only seek to discredit something they could not fathom for themselves. They could not grasp it, so all that is left for them is to try in vain to discredit it.
This way of life is very challenging and so it’s not for everyone, and these people missed the message. They didn’t want to hear what the Nagual was trying so impeccably to tell them about. They missed the tremendous gift that the Nagual has left behind for all of us to pick up and run with if we can. This gift is for everyone, all he ever did was try to turn around and share it with each of us before he left.
These particular individuals are getting lost in the mentality of rationalizing something that can’t be grasped with the linear mind, and trying to make everything make sense to their linear mind is an absurdity that Cleargreen does not want to have anything to do with. There is nothing we can do for these people that we have not already done, we are interested only in the journey to infinity and the mystery of awareness. We can’t do anything for people who refuse to see what has been laid out very clearly for them by the Nagual.
Vincent: That sounds very nice and all, Mr. Boudwah, and I have the highest regard for people who sincerely wish to explore the mystery of being alive. You know me as being one such person.
Cleargreen: I do . . . your name is quite known. You have posted to Tango and so forth and you have been a practitioner for a long time. Everyone around here knows who you are or knows of your name.
Vincent: Yeah, we have all been at this a long time now. So now I want to address issues of factual events which are highly relevant events to longtime practitioners, and the context within which all of this has been placed in Cleargreen sponsored workshops. This entire way of life has been set forth within the context of a long series of so called actual events that were purported to have taken place. The apprenticeship of Carlos Castaneda to don Juan Matus is stated to be a factual reportage of actual events as they occurred. I would like to talk about specific events described by Carlos Castaneda in the course of the Tensegrity workshops, in Cleargreen sponsored workshops, as being “factual events.”
Cleargreen: Such as?
Vincent: Such as how Carol Tiggs was purported to have been gone for 10 years when public records clearly indicate that she was definitely here the whole time, living with her mother and working on a degree in acupressure or acupuncture, whatever. Public records clearly discredit what Castaneda asserted and what Cleargreen sponsored in their workshops.
Cleargreen: But Carol Tiggs WAS gone! She ABSOLUTELY was gone that whole time. It just depends on if you want to listen to your linear mind, and disregard the existence of the second attention, or if you are capable of tuning all of that garbage out and just focusing on the mystery of our journey into the infinite, the mystery of awareness. Are you listening to these people, these few disgruntled individuals who are basing their entire approach to the warriors’ way on their desire to seek attention for themselves? The fact is that they were unable to get the message. Since they couldn’t grasp the immensity of the Nagual’s message, instead of focusing themselves on the real crux of the matter, which is this wonderful gift that has been left for us by the Nagual, they are going around trying to tear it all down with vicious accusations that have no basis in reality.
And this is very unfortunate, because they are missing the immensity, this magical opportunity the Nagual was gracious enough to share with us all before he departed on his definitive journey into the infinite! Since they can’t focus their attention on that, what is left for them? Tell me, what?
Vincent: Well, the facts for one. Public records state very clearly otherwise. Carol Tiggs never really went anywhere, she was just Kathy Pohlman the whole time.
Cleargreen: It all depends on who you would rather have lunch with.
Vincent: ????
Cleargreen: It depends on if you want to sit and have lunch with these egomaniacal, attention seeking people who were incapable of grasping the immensity of what Carlos was putting forth for us, people who are going around now on the internet trying to discredit everything the Nagual stood for, or if you want to have lunch with Nury. I for one would rather have lunch with Nury! A-ny-day-of-the-week!
Vincent: Fuck Nury! What about the facts? How can you disregard . . .
Cleargreen: If you insist on placating the lawyer and accountant mentality with these ridiculously trivial pursuits of the logical mind you will never be able to escape the boundaries of reason and tap into the ultimate mystery of existence, the mystery of being alive, the mystery of awareness. That is what Cleargreen is involved in, they are involved in making the tools of awareness available for anybody who wants to put forth a sincere effort to overcome their overly rational garbage and stake out a journey into the infinite. We have no interest in taking a defensive posture or stance against any of these accusations made by disgruntled people who were clearly given every opportunity to see and failed, and who are now merely out with the primary motivation to discredit what they could not grasp, and to seek attention for themselves in the process!
Vincent: That is not what they are trying to do, though! That is what I want you most to understand, Brian. These are longtime PRACTITIONERS of Tensegrity who are trying to present facts to you about glaring inconsistencies that they have been made aware of and they are asking you to respond honestly to these facts and you’re not doing it. You’re just deflecting the issues and dodging the truth. You are using ambiguous terms to dance around difficult issues without ever really saying anything substantive whatsoever. You should hear yourselves.
Cleargreen: As I just said, Cleargreen is focused on the mystery of awareness and in sharing the gift of the Nagual with anyone who will listen! These people who are spreading these rumors on the internet, they just refuse to listen. And there is nothing we can do for them. We only have time to try to assist those who are making a sincere effort to be free, to overcome themselves, who wish to do away with this trivial nonsense of the lawyer and accountant mentality. We are only interested in a struggle to be free! This way of living is not for everyone, and that means we are going to have to listen to garbage from people like this who refuse to overcome themselves and see energy directly as it flows in the universe.
Vincent: Well, I am supportive of anyone who wants to make a journey into the infinite, my friend. And I agree with the fact that making that journey implies leaving the context of the linear and rational mind, because a large number of traditions, of course, delineate a similar path to enlightenment. But what I can’t support is the context in which all of this has been put.
Cleargreen: Yabba yabba yabba yabba . . . (Brian tries again to interrupt).
Vincent: Now just let me state my point and then I will let you state yours.
Cleargreen: All right, go ahead.
Vincent: The work of Carlos Castaneda is alleged to have been a reporting of actual events that occurred in his life. These events are the BASIS of his work. The teachings of don Juan are set within the context of the events of Castaneda’s life. These events are held up to be a “nonfictional reportage” of his personal history. Indeed the entire teachings of don Juan are set within the context of Carlos Castaneda’s personal history. These events are said to be factual events. Now, within the context of the Cleargreen sponsored workshops, Castaneda delineated crucial sequences of events that were said to have actually transpired. A significant number of such events that Castaneda said actually took place have been disproven by conflicting documents, by publicly held records that state otherwise – such as those concerning Carol Tiggs, such as those concerning the Blue Scout, who is really just an average girl named Patti Lee Partin.
Cleargreen: Now wait just a minute here . . .
Vincent: Let me finish and then I will hear you out, my friend, just let me complete this thought. You have not let me state any of my points fully yet without interrupting.
Cleargreen: All right, go ahead, but then you have to hear ME out.
Vincent: No problem. All the evidence that has come to light in public records simply supports undeniable, documented facts, that when taken together indicate that Carlos Castaneda’s work was not really a factual reportage on actual events at all, as was professed. But moreover, publicly held documentation points to the inescapable conclusion that Carlos Castaneda was really more of a novelist, and that his work was indeed truly fiction after all. And in that light the credibility of your entire organization can’t be taken seriously, because when key events like this in the body of a work are discredited, as they have so clearly been in Castaneda’s case, then the ENTIRE credibility of his work, his message and that of your organization is completely discredited, or at best is hemorrhaging badly. Add to that, Brian, the fact that Cleargreen refuses to address these issues openly, in a timely manner, with their longtime practitioners . . . well, all of that only further deteriorates anyone’s ability to take anything Cleargreen has to say seriously. Are you at all aware of this widely held perception of your organization?
Cleargreen: Again, all of this just brings us back to the question the Nagual repeatedly stated over and over again, over and over. He said, “When are you going to stop beating your wife, huh? When?” How can anyone be expected to respond to accusations like these? There is no answer to these trivial absurdities and there never will be. Cleargreen has no interest in ever taking a defensive stance against anything the lawyer and accountant mentality has to offer. We’re just simply not interested in perpetuating these kind of absurdities. They don’t have anything to do with our journey into the mystery of awareness, and Cleargreen doesn’t feel they should have to be dragged down to such a level. We are warriors on a quest for freedom, what do we care what people are saying? We are fighting against exactly this kind of mindset that you are bringing forward here as valid. We don’t have time to pay attention to such trivialities when the immensity of existence is right before our eyes!
Vincent: But, but . . . (how can you deny these facts, I wanted to ask, but he wouldn’t let up.)
Cleargreen: There is nothing we can say to any of that. We have absolutely no interest whatsoever in taking a defensive posture against these kinds of accusation. What you have to understand is that these particular people who refuse to overcome themselves and be free, they have nothing better to do. So they are just egomaniacally driven to keep dredging up unsubstantiated accusations in order to gain attention for themselves.
Vincent: But that isn’t . . . (true, I wanted to interject, they are quite well substantiated, but he wouldn’t allow me to speak nor listen to what I was trying to say to him.)
Cleargreen: The personal history of particular individuals doesn’t amount to a hill of beans against the fact that we have to die. What really matters is not where we have been, but rather where we are going! We are being presented with a magical and mysterious gift left by the Nagual, a mysterious door left half open. A gift he so graciously and painstakingly labored to share with us before he left the world, before he burned with the fire from within.
Vincent: Well, let’s talk about that for second, Brian.
Cleargreen: Okay.
Vincent: There is evidence that very clearly shows Castaneda was utterly emaciated and feeble just before he died. Every indication points to the FACT that he died an ordinary death, no different than any . . .
Cleargreen: Oh, but you don’t know! You don’t even know! The . . . you don’t know the type of maneuver he pulled off there. He . . . he was an impeccable warrior, through and through, he was pure, and you can’t say what it was that he actually did. At the three-week workshop back in August . . .
Vincent: Yeah, what about it?
Cleargreen: He said, “I’m not here! I’m already gone!” And yet he managed to stay around here for FIVE YEARS! You have no idea what that required of him. And your linear mind can’t even comprehend such a thing, you can’t even fathom the depths of his maneuver, you don’t know what it is he actually did there. He was, well, you were there during that time, you have been around a long time, you know what he was like. He was truly a joy to be around, intoxicating! He was pure intentionality, he was an impeccable man that . . . he was pure, and he acted impeccably with everyone.
Vincent: Sure, whatever. There is a lot of evidence that states otherwise, my friend.
Cleargreen: Well, you know, “When are you going to stop beating your wife?”
Vincent: Another thing is this issue of the Blue Scout being held up as a special, particular kind of being. If you were to just take a look at what public documents say, she was being put forth in the context of the workshops as something she is clearly not. A person who was . . .
Cleargreen: Oh, she very definitely is. She is all that and a lot more. I can personally attest, she is! Well, I can tell you from experience she is a truly incredible being, not at all of this world. She is exactly what she is said to be, and so is Carol Tiggs. She has done things for me that you cannot imagine. She has brought about changes in me that no other person . . . again, it just comes down to one thing, “Who would you rather have lunch with?” One of the people spreading these rumors on the internet, or Nury? And I for one would rather have lunch with Nury any day of the week!
Vincent: Yeah, you said that already. According to public records, Patti Partin was just a below average misfit really, an impressionable 19 year-old girl who had very few impeccable qualities at all. She came into contact with Castaneda’s influential persona, and from there she was elevated to a kind of cult status.
Cleargreen: Now just you wait a minute here, just listen to me for a second. I have said it before and I will keep repeating myself over and over again until I sound like a broken record. If you refuse to do anything but listen to the lawyer and accountant version of the world, all that rational garbage that goes on and on in your head, how are you ever going to lift off into infinity? How can you go to infinity carrying all this crap? You can’t do it that way! All these people have ever tried to do is point that out to you. You have to let go of all of this minuscule accounting, this irrelevant fact finding and drawing at straws for reasonable conclusions to every single thing that comes along. If you are going to sincerely aspire to the warriors’ way you are just going to have to suspend judgment and act. You have to make a decision, and that decision is about whether you are going to listen to all this nonsense that these failed practitioners are putting out there, or if you are going to make a sincere effort to be free of all of that.
Vincent: Well, one thing I would like to ask of your organization, as a sincere inquiry from a longtime practitioner, is if you would just take the time to honestly address some of these issues openly with longtime practitioners, maybe it would . . .
Cleargreen: No, we are NEVER going to involve ourselves with anything of that nature, not at any time. Cleargreen has absolutely no interest whatsoever in addressing this kind of nonsense. Uh, I have another call coming in, can you hold on one second?
Vincent: Sure.
[20 seconds later]
Cleargreen: Vincent! I have another call coming in I have to take. I hope I was able to answer some of your questions for you and I hope we see you around again real soon.
Vincent: Whatever . . .
[Click]
CID OBSERVATION
Brian Boudwah (formerly Lance Billitzer) displayed the typical behavior of a fanatic who does not want to confront the facts that demonstrate the charlatanism of his guru, and therefore prefers to blind himself to his dogmatic belief.
BACKGROUND
Vincent wrote:
I contacted Cleargreen at their website and very directly asked them for an explanation about why they refuse to address factual, highly relevant issues with long-time practitioners.
The correspondence below, in order from most recent to initial contact, is what led to the Jan. 20th telephone conversation with Cleargreen.
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To: log@cleargreen.com
Subject: Re: Questions of Relevance (contact info)
Dear Cleargreen,
Thank you for your reply to my inquiry at your website and I look forward to the opportunity to speak with you privately about these matters. I will be available here at my home in the later part of this week and will be happy to talk with you privately. In regards to setting up a time, so I will be certain to be here to take your call, allow me to set the time for our conversation at 2:00pm on Thursday, Jan. 20th.
I will be sure to be here then and would be happy to speak with someone from your organization. If the scheduled time doesn’t work for you please get back to me via email early this week, or leave a message on my machine Tuesday or Wednesday, so we can reschedule. Please note that my email address has changed in the last several days since we previously contacted one another. My previous address, “Silence@SpiritOne.com” is no longer in service, you will find my new address below.
My home phone is now: (503) XXX-XXXX and I will be looking forward to hearing from you.
Until then,
Vincent Sargenti
P.S. Below you will find a record of our previous conversation, should you need it for any reason.
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Subject: Re: Questions of Relevance (from site)
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 07:12:04 -0700
From: log <log@cleargreen.com>
To: Silence@SpiritOne.com
Dear Vincent:
Very few long-time practitioners of Tensegrity that you mention have actually addressed their questions to us!
In answer to your questions, we have posted on our own page and on Tango responses to these concerns which very clearly address the questions you are posing.
We would be more than happy to speak to you personally if you would like; please let us know a time and number to call.
Best regards,
Cleargreen
—–
From: Vincent Sargenti
To: Cleargreen Incorporated
From: Vincent Sargenti
Re: Questions of Relevance
Date: December 23, 1999
Dear Sir ,
Why does Cleargreen refuse to acknowledge the questions formulated by it’s own long-time Tensegrity practitioners in regards to the obvious discrepancies between the events Carlos Castaneda elucidated in the workshops as having actually happened and the conflicting dates and times that public records indicate? Why do the public records so blatantly contradict such events and why won’t cleargreen come forward and talk to their own students(/customers) about these issues?
As a paying participant in many of the workshops I would like to know: Is it true that Castaneda fabricated most of the events he depicted as true stories in the workshops? Public records seem to disprove a fair portion of what Cleargreen, Inc. sponsored in their workshops. Why doesn’t cleargreen offer a more direct and forthcoming statement on the matter, since is their code to act impeccably?
Is it true then that Carlos has indeed fabricated the bulk of the characters and events in his work, including don Juan, in order to gain wealth and notoriety?
Why doesn’t Cleargreen openly address these sobering and reasonable questions with their long-time students?
Is it possible that Cleargreen knew all along about the fraudulent basis of Castaneda’s work but aided and abetted the perpetuation of such a fraud because their were large amounts of money to be made and they never thought that enough physical evidence could be brought forth to prove such a fraud?
Is that part of the reason why no cameras or recorders were allowed at the workshops?
Are you aware that by not addressing these questions you are already undermining your credibility among those who have all of this information before them?
I would really appreciate someone in your organization taking the time to address these issues since they do have such an enormous amount of relevance to long-time practitioners of Tensegrity.
Sincerely,
Vincent Sargenti
©️ 1999 by Vincent Sargenti, all rights reserved
(Source: https://sustainedaction.org/explorations/a-conversation-with-cleargreen/)
